Abby Sugar is the Founder of Play Out Apparel, a gender-equal clothing brand dedicated to positively impacting queer visibility and representation. Play Out Apparel’s mission is to create a community where queer, gender non-conforming and transgender individuals can see themselves joyously reflected in clothing and brands. Abby is also committed to reducing Play Out Apparel’s carbon footprint by using recycled materials and compostable bags, manufacturing its products in a Mexico-based, woman-owned factory that employs and pays a living wage to LGBTQ+ workers and workers over 50.

During our interview with Abby, we saw her as the catalyst that she is. Abby is truly a connector, collaborator, and community builder. We also learned more about Abby’s journey of creating one of the first brands to tackle gender-equal fashion, how Abby leveraged resourcefulness when she didn’t have a fashion background, and how she has been intentional in who and how things are manufactured for Play Out Apparel.

Let’s jump right in.

What was the inspiration behind Play Out Apparel? 

Abby: So many of our products come from people unable to find what they want out in the world. It was also really hard finding gender-equal underwear for my friends, myself, and my community. It wasn't available, prompting questions about why underwear is gendered.   

Ten years ago, even five years ago, there was a huge distinction between ultra-feminine and ultra-masculine styles. The expectation was that women wear pink lace lingerie and underwear. And men's underwear styles were jockstraps, trunks, briefs, and boxer briefs with a one-and-a-half-inch waistband. There was also a specific construction and design that wasn't available for all body types. 

You should feel comfortable with the first thing you put on in the morning. You should also feel sexy for your partner but mainly for yourself.  

This way of moving through the world resonated so strongly with our community that we were encouraged to expand. So we expanded into streetwear. When you go to Play Out, we have bottoms, tops, and dresses, and we still maintain the intentional absence of gender categories. Feel fabulous. Wear whatever you want to wear. Be yourself. Express yourself.

That's where the inspiration behind Play Out Apparel originally came from; equality of style for underwear.

Cat & Marianna: How did you get started? What was that like? 

Abby:

My life motto is, “fucking figure it out.”

I read extensively and constantly turn to my network and community for help. I had to think about who in my circle knows fashion, design, and business and ask for conversations with them.

My background is not in fashion, so I did a lot of self-teaching. I had to figure out what inspired me and find a way to make it happen. 

Luckily, living in New York City for 18 years had some advantages. NYC has the garment district, so I could rely on those resources. I also attended FIT, the Fashion Institute of Technology based out of NYC, and took continuing education courses.

What does your creative process look like?

Abby: As an artist, the inspiration for the designs is always there in terms of prints and colors through any experiences engaging with the world.

In terms of specific products, inspiration always comes from customer feedback. For example, people have asked for swimwear for quite some time. So last year we launched our swim line. It did take some time, but we wanted to get it right. So when we did launch, it was successful.

What is one challenge you have faced as the Founder of Play Out Apparel, and how did you navigate it?   

Abby: This question is so hard. The greatest challenge is running a business. It’s advertising, making sales, etc. Just being able to survive as a queer business owner is hard. 

There are pros and cons of being an e-commerce business these days. Unfortunately, so much of this is mediated through social media platforms. However, some of these platforms shadow-ban and stifle LGBTQ+ voices, so we can't even reach followers in our community. I don't necessarily have any solutions, but my advice is perseverance.

What do you see when you think about Play Out Apparel in the next 5-10 years?

Abby: Having more of a community-like safe space. Because the LGBTQ+ community is being targeted, we need a safe place for self-expression and to connect, which can happen online. There's a place for Web3, extended reality, community building, and self-expression.  

For somebody in the middle of the United States, who can’t safely wear Play Out Apparel or express themselves as they want to, they can do that online in a virtual community.

If Play Out Apparel could provide gender-equal clothing for queer people in Web3, that would be amazing.

As you think about the next generation of LGBTQ+ entrepreneurs and founders, what's one piece of advice that you'd want to give to them?  

Abby: The most important thing is always be true to yourself, your work, and what you're trying to do. Focus on building with your point of view.

Cat & Marianna: Yes, because everyone brings their unique perspective. There's space for all of those perspectives.

Abby: Right. I think that advice is super valuable because even when I was in tech, companies can get so focused on the competitors and what they're doing. Then you can get lost if you're not focused on the people there for your product and brand today. You can do that while celebrating your competitors and their points of view.

What LGBTQ+ owned brands are your favorites and why? 

Abby: There are so many, and I want to talk about everyone! 

For apparel, the first brand that is amazing that I always think of is Stuzo Clothing. I love their style and designs. Everyone should wear Stuzo all the time!

For things like solid color compression tops, gaffes, and packers, I refer folks to Urbody. 

For beauty, Good Light comes to mind!

Cat & Marianna: We love hearing about new brands because we’re canceling all our subscriptions for personal care and beauty products and replacing them with brands we’re hearing about or discovering through Famm. We want all of our dollars to go to LGBTQ+ businesses.

How have you been celebrating Pride this year?

Abby: One of the biggest things for Play Out is that we always collaborate with other LGBTQ+ brands and influencers.
We had a few Instagram Live events with queer founders, including the one with Famm! The other thing that is important to me is to amplify trans voices and the issues that are happening right now. 

Erin Reed is a researcher and a journalist who publishes a Substack weekly and is active on Twitter. All of the anti-trans legislation data visualization maps come from Erin. Sharing Erin’s work, especially during Pride, is important to me.

I also have this conversation constantly where we sit around and say, “Hey, we know that we're queer 365 days a year. So this isn't just a June conversation.” But the rest of the population is paying more attention during June. So we can’t let the opportunity pass us by to yell a little bit louder and continue to say, “Hey, fucking pay attention!” Otherwise, it can feel like I’m talking into a void eleven months out of the year.  

Cat & Marianna: Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Everyone has different feelings about Pride. Some folks celebrate it, and some don't. It comes down to understanding and acknowledging the complexity of our queerness and what that brings up for each of us. 

Abby: Right. Because there are different ways you can show up. Not just this month but every day. And we do it in the ways we have the capacity, ability, or privilege to do it.

How are you taking care of yourself during this time, given the record-breaking number of bills introduced and policies passed that are anti-trans and anti-LGBTQ+?

Abby: When things are too heavy, I have to tune out. I factor in my well-being and remind myself to turn off notifications or abandon an upsetting article.  

Who is your favorite LGBTQ celebrity, and why?  

Abby: I will be nerdy and go with a favorite LGBTQ+ author, Maggie Nelson. I highly recommend The Argonauts for your reading list. Maggie is a poet and theoretical essayist. The Argonauts are about her journey with her partner, who is gender fluid, but as a couple, they appear heteronormative. And she navigates this, given she identifies as super queer. Strongly recommend it!  

Can you share one fun fact about yourself? 

Abby:  My undergraduate degree was in English literature, focusing on creative writing. I traveled to Russia many years ago for a writing program. I wrote poetry and have been published in literary journals. So I'm a former poet, one could say.  

Cat & Marianna: Where can we find your work?  

Abby: I do have a literary and business Substack. 

Check out Play Out Apparel’s profile here.